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Kassen
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 Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:18 am Post subject:
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| dewdrop_world wrote: | My goodness. When Apple drops support for an older OS version, it sparks a seven-page thread... but when M$ does the same thing, we talk about... pizza.
Double-standard, anyone?
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Actually there have been a lot of topics about this already. Dropping XP isn't the actual issue, the problem is that the new one is Vista. It's not like I cried when 98 was dumped.... I was annoyed (when it hit me personally) for a few hours because I knew it inside-out, then got to work on getting XP is shape.
None of this is about XP, it's about Vista and everybody hates Vista. We have hated Vista since it was called "Longhorn" and it was announced to have DRM.
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I mean, think about it... OSX 10.5 vs. Vista... hello? Which OS is in worse shape? Which one was in development and delayed longer?
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Yeah, that's a good question. I don't care that it was in development for a long time. Development simply takes time, the issue is what this time was spend on (DRM and trying to look like a Mac which I feel is stupid because if PC people liked that look they would've gotten a Mac, wouldn't they?) .
But yes, this is a really good question and you may have noticed me asking it repeatedly. Not just "which is in worse shape", that's likely Vista, but both have a rather large belly and keep breathing funny at the top of the stairs. THE question is "which one can be brought to be in a better shape?" and that is a rather hard one as there is hardly any info in properly tuning OSX and the results of VIsta tuning seem a bit ho-hum so far.
I'll be waiting for the smoke to clear a bit myself because neither OS looking too appealing right now... and maybe if push comes to shove the only option will be a warezed copy of XP. I much prefer to be honest, but there are limits.
You can go "hello?" and that's cute and all but I understand you never tuned a XP install so won't miss it and aren't affected by the OSX usability issues. Tell me how to get OSX's size below half a gig and make the status bar a part of the program's window instead. Run "top" or "ps- A", paste the results here, and tell me what each and every one of those does, what depends on what and how and how to delete that ones that don't directly affect making music. Look at your current screen and notice which bits have Apple's usability ideas in them; those are all bit that I will know how to delete, then we'll talk.
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:30 am Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: | | OSX usability issues. |
What "OSX usability issues"? What that you can't change the gui very easily? Kas, IMHO, the OSX gui, does NOT get in the way. In fact it's much (way) more productive than XP's workflow.
Just try to ignore the gui! 
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Kassen
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:30 am Post subject:
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| Inventor wrote: | | Folks are just glad the dang thing works at all, that is if you buy 4 Gigs of RAM and fine tune the OS first it will work. |
Sure, it can be gotten to work at all and I like that. No paid point releases breaking your tax filing program, for example. It'll run in 265MB, BTW, try that on the latest OSX.
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:35 am Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: | | It'll run in 265MB, BTW, try that on the latest OSX. |
If you look at it like that, even 32mb is bloatware 
The early IBM machines ran on 4K. 4K would fill an entire warehouse.
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Kassen
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:43 am Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: |
What "OSX usability issues"? |
The ones that make it look and work like a Mac.
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What that you can't change the gui very easily? |
I want that bar at the top of the screen that has the "file" and whatever menus to be a part of every program's window. I told you about a million times. If it's so easy tell me how it's done. I just want it to behave like the interface of a modern multitasking OS instead of sticking to conventions that date back to the days of Apple promoting the idea that multi-tasking was a fundamentally bad idea for -erm- philosophical reasons.
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Kas, IMHO, the OSX gui, does NOT get in the way. In fact it's much (way) more productive than XP's workflow.
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That's simply not my experience. We've been over this already, if you didn't get it back then you likely won't now.
| Quote: | | Just try to ignore the gui! |
I already told you that when on OSX I indeed have to and use the terminal for things like moving files.
Now if you'll excuse me I have deadlines and will use the XP workflow to make a complete new liveset in a few hours over the next week which is packed full with appointments; I'm not the one complaining that interfaces for desktop computers suck so much because the one on mine doesn't.
:¬)
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Uncle Krunkus
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:23 am Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | I'm miffed because I was hoping to build an XP-based workstation, but with the introduction of Vista, well forget it. 
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Why would the introduction of Vista stop you from building an XP-based workstation? As I alluded to before, just 'cos there is a new OS, you don't have to take it. 
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:14 am Post subject:
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Andrew, I was under the impression that if I bought another copy of XP after the 30th of June, I wouldn't be able to register it.
And I say 'another copy' as I don't know whether or not it is possible to transfer the licence from one computer to another.
FWIW, If it wasn't for Solidworks, I wouldn't even need a windows PC- fortunately though, I've been 'invited' to join the Rhino OSX beta testers so I may not need a new PC after all- phew!
| Kassen wrote: | | I want that bar at the top of the screen that has the "file" and whatever menus to be a part of every program's window. I told you about a million times. If it's so easy tell me how it's done. I just want it to behave like the interface of a modern multitasking OS instead of sticking to conventions that date back to the days of Apple promoting the idea that multi-tasking was a fundamentally bad idea for -erm- philosophical reasons. |
I can't see what you find so difficult about having a finder toolbar at the top of the screen rather than within a screen. I am typing this mail from XP right now. In ths window at the top left hand side is a toolbar. If I click on the toolbar in the window behind, that window comes to the front- the behaviour is very similar to that of a Mac. I don't see what the problem is?
FWIW, When OS X first came out, Job's intention was to kll the finder altogether- just lile you say, unfortunately it were the users who moaned (not me I may mention), wanting the original finder format back- so don't blame Apple, blame the users 
| Kassen wrote: | | Quote: |
Kas, IMHO, the OSX gui, does NOT get in the way. In fact it's much (way) more productive than XP's workflow. |
That's simply not my experience. We've been over this already, if you didn't get it back then you likely won't now. |
Okay- but I don't understand why this is your "entire experience", because IMHO, you've never really stuck with OS X long enough to find out. I've now been using both OS X and XP alongside each other for over 4 years. Please, get OS X then tell me that it sucks in 4 years time- if it really does. :¬)
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DrJustice
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:24 am Post subject:
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| Uncle Krunkus wrote: | Nothing to get hysterical about.  |
Wow, that is a great little piece of insight.
| a-un-v wrote: | | Uncle Krunkus wrote: |
I think it's just that PC users don't get so emotionally involved in an OS.
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That's NOT my impression!!
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Think again. My impression is that PC users are largely pragmatic users, often caring more about computing than computers (or fashion devices if you wish). However, almost everytime a certain class of Mac users spots a PC user/debate there will be an attempt at ridicule and assertion of superiority. I can tell you for a fact that some people are really, really tired of the annoying repeated Mac-tirades. These same people usually STFU and compute.
| Quote: | As for Linux users, they are the most elitist up-their-own-arses people I've ever spoken to!!!!
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I agree to some degree. IMHO one of linux biggest problem is the merciless meritocracy and the effects thereof. Note that some non-Mac user may not view certain factions of the Mac-community as particularily non-elitist....
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DrJustice
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:39 am Post subject:
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Of course, I should know better than submitting that previus posting, but obviously I don't
DJ
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DrJustice
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:43 am Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | I'm miffed because I was hoping to build an XP-based workstation, but with the introduction of Vista, well forget it.
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Why?
I can higly recommend that Antec case that comes up at the top of that link. I have one and it's very cool and quiet.
DJ
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject:
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Indeed
My Compaq laptop drives me nuts because its fan sounds like its preparing for take-off! 
My Macbook Pro on the other hand, is very quiet, even when running windows in Fusion (virtualisation). Unfortunately Fusion's virtual 'graphics card' simulation is only really good for undemanding situations. The Compaq is otoh, has a nvidia graphics card. Nvidia is better than ATI I reckon.
Oh why is life so difficult?
[/right]
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DrJustice
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | Nvidia is better than ATI I reckon.
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Yes! We can have Graphic Card Wars! Unfortunately I'm an Nvidia man too, so not much opposition so far 
To get O(n)T, the rumours of XP's death are greatly exaggerated IMO. I expect my various installations to run for a few more years. But then again, that may not be indicative of anything...
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject:
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You know, with all this OS debate going on, I'd like to make the following comment: "Modern OS's Rock!". I remember as many posters do the 80's computers, my first was a TRS-80 in 1980, a model III with 16 kB RAM and a cassette tape drive. I'd code up a long program and then the tape drive would eat it up for dinner, leaving me with no program at all! That bytes.
I could go on and list all the different systems that I played and worked on in the past 28 years, but suffice to say they have grown from bad to good. Modern OS's, including the big three that we discuss in these threads, really rock by comparison to the old stone-tool days. Things run fairly quickly, there are half a dozen ways to do most any given thing, and well, puters just plain work better.
So let's all remember our origins and I feel we will agree that things are a lot better than before in many ways.
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject:
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| Inventor wrote: |
So let's all remember our origins and I feel we will agree that things are a lot better than before in many ways. |
Hear Hear!!
I used to have a Sinclair ZX80. Everytime one pressed a 'key' (plastic bubble pad) the screen would violently jump! Things improved slightly with the ZX81 though
I still want an Asus Eee PC though!
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Uncle Krunkus
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject:
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| Inventor wrote: |
So let's all remember our origins and I feel we will agree that things are a lot better than before in many ways. |
I'll third that!
I remember the floppy drive on my Amiga which would make a copy of a 3.5" disk and corrupt the original in the process! I had piles of disks lying around with no idea which one would work!
And my original 486 DX4/100 running DOS6. It had 9 different startup configs depending on what I wanted to run. And if you turned it off, with the amp still on, the soundcard would pop the speakers. (It once blew a voice coil in my DM110s!)
Anyway, Tom, you can transfer XP to another computer quite easily. Just install it on the new computer, and when you activate it (probably over the phone) say that it's only installed on one computer (which it now is) and away you go. I'd bet my left teste that when "support" for XP stops, you'll still be able to activate an old version. Otherwise the original would be unuseable, and that would land MS in another big court case.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | | I used to have a Sinclair ZX80. |
I remember when my friend got one of those, they were an amazing advancement for their time. Super-small, BASIC programming language, just hook it up to your TV and plug it in, go. Or should I say "GOTO", haha.
One of these days I'm going to get nostalgic and start collecting all the computers from my past just for the fun of it. I doubt if it's worth setting up a PDP-11 mainframe, but the little ones, they are still around. Nostalgia anyone?
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DrJustice
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject:
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| Inventor wrote: | | "Modern OS's Rock!" |
Fourthed!
In the religious OS wars I preach atheism, or perhaps rather polytheism. Actually I'd prefer not to have a war. I've enjoyed a great variety of platforms through the years, and the main aspects has gotten better all the time.
DJ
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bachus
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject:
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| DrJustice wrote: | | Inventor wrote: | | "Modern OS's Rock!" |
Fourthed!
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Fifthed! Preferably with Lagavulin.
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject:
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Lagavulin not mixed with anything?
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blue hell
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject:
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| I disagree ... and yet I agree ... I'm missing the directness of the old machines but I don't mis the tape interface very much I mis the turn it on and go feature the old stuff had, but I don't mis the short distance it would go then ... yes the machines are much better easier and faster but something got lost as well. |
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | I'm missing the directness of the old machines... yes the machines are much better easier and faster but something got lost as well. |
I second the fifth, and make it a double!
Blue Hell, I bet you drive a stick shift, or would prefer to? No sloppy automatics for you, you want the pure raw power of the beast itself. Me, I prefer the smooth, easy ride of a classic Benz. BTW, my Benz is 19 years old, when does it get to be an "antique"? I think it's 25 years old when you get the "antique" plate in USA.
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elektro80
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | | Lagavulin not mixed with anything? |
no soda for me!
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blue hell
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject:
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| Inventor wrote: | | I bet you drive a stick shift |
yes, but most people do over here.
No soda for me either .. but I'm test driving some triples right now ...
Windows xp embedded would run on on a pc I think, it has the benefit of costing less and it's way more configurable.
Windows vista business and ultimate are still offered with an xp upgrade I think ... well the vista on my new laptop was anyway.
Xp will still be offered for mini systems like the one dollar laptop ... or make that one hundred, sorry two, no three hundred  |
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DrJustice
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | I disagree ... and yet I agree ... I'm missing the directness of the old machines |
That's what I mean by claiming that the 'main aspects' has gotten better. I'm too young to have toggled in programs, but I miss that anyway
And of course stick shift is the only way
Me, I 've got Smokehead, no soda or water thanks.
DJ
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bachus
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | | Lagavulin not mixed with anything? |
Why sure mix it with some Drambuie for a hell of a rusty nail
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