Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
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Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject:
Inexpensive vintage spring reverbs for modular synth usage Subject description: Tube, solid-state, BBD... From the hi-fi world to a Moog panel.
Tube:
JVC Nivico Eca-101e (don't know if it's true stereo)
Pioneer SR-101 (true stereo, two short spring tanks)
Current pricing on both: $40-100.00
Seller donramon2 on ebay stores says that they have a Pioneer for $150, if you can't find one elsewhere.
Solid-State:
Pioneer SR-202 (don't know if it's true stereo)
Current pricing: $20+
Bucket Brigade, if you're into that simulating reverb, should be fun to mod!
Pioneer SR-303
Current pricing: $30+
There are also Sansui and later Pioneer models but I have not researched them and can't tell you anything about them.
Although lacking in variable damping, 17" tanks, and other amenities as found on say an Agonizer or the Modcan, here is your source for a DIY spring reverb module. Or two. Add switchable pre- or post- EQ...
I have an SR-101, and it's pretty quiet, but twangy. I'm going to look at the Buchla schemos to see if he's rolling off the bass at the input to smooth it out. Last edited by Peake on Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:11 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject:
DVD player straight into the SR-101- a little level imbalance and more noise than when I used it with the Selector. The source music is Drexciya (how did he spell that?). Obviously this unit must be modded to allow for wet signal out only.
Oh, and an interesting note found online:
"As a reverberation amplifier, it serves its purpose very well. But for those who just want to add a little "valve" sound to their system, it also works as a tube buffer stage. Turn the "Reverb Time" down all the way (removing the reverb tanks from the mix), and you have a nice cheap way to add a little tube warmth to your system for a pittance. The signal still passes through the tubes and it works out very well."
Reverb.mp3
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Last edited by Peake on Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:40 am Post subject:
Both springs are inside the Pioneer, twanging away. I have yet to "modularize" the unit, and will likely put the electronics and springs inside the rack with the other modules.
The Modcan springs sound a LOT better, but you pay for what you get.
Both springs are inside the Pioneer, twanging away. I have yet to "modularize" the unit, and will likely put the electronics and springs inside the rack with the other modules.
Rather than stuffing it behind my modular, I just run the Pioneer's IO to a 1/4" patch panel beneath my setup. I couldn't bring myself to hack it apart - I love the graphical representation of "reverbe time" on the front.
Well worth the $75 I paid at a local pawn-shop. Running sharp attacks through it gets really sproingy, really quickly.
Both springs are inside the Pioneer, twanging away. I have yet to "modularize" the unit, and will likely put the electronics and springs inside the rack with the other modules.
So this is a tube amp/spring reverb? Will all of the electronics fit behind a module panel? I haven't researched spring tanks or reverbs much yet.
Just wondering, because I'd like to make a spring reverb/VCA module at some point (kinda of putting it off till the end), do you know what type of spring tank is used in the Modcan? I've seen the tanks offered by Doepfer, for instance, and I wouldn't mind paying a little more for a nice, clean sounding tank--if it makes a big difference. Perhaps they both, Modcan and Doepfer, use the same type of tank? I don't imagine there's a real big selection of reverb tanks still being made in these largely digital days.
Joined: Dec 29, 2006 Posts: 1176 Location: australia
Audio files: 4
Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject:
ericcoleridge wrote:
Perhaps they both, Modcan and Doepfer, use the same type of tank? I don't imagine there's a real big selection of reverb tanks still being made in these largely digital days.
cheap spring reverb? pick up a 70's organ or electone off the side of the road, or buy one from the local trading post for $1. The kind of thing granny used to have. Many of them have accutronics tanks in them. The only problem is how to get rid of the big pile of crap leftover, once you have extracted the tank (and its accompanying cct board)
The one I had in mind, offered by Doepfer, is here.
Pretty expensive, relative to a dollar organ, but it looks very compact.
You can also buy new accutronics tanks from guitar parts stores for < $30. I'm probably going to go this route. I think I might try building something similar to the Paia Hot Springs, which has two tanks that cancel out some of the sproing. I also want stereo, so that would mean four tanks...
I think I might try building something similar to the Paia Hot Springs, which has two tanks that cancel out some of the sproing. I also want stereo, so that would mean four tanks...
anybody tried the interfacing the hotsprings to modular synth levels? can it be run as-is, or do you need to drop the levels to keep from overdriving the reverb, and then boost them again after (might get noizy)?
http://www.synthesizers.com/q115.html _________________ A Charity Pantomime in aid of Paranoid Schizophrenics descended into chaos yesterday when someone shouted, "He's behind you!"
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:45 am Post subject:
Yes, but that's $272.00 for a pair (not so bad for you Euro folks due to Bush's continuing destruction of the US dollar/economy). Roger also sells blank panels for $12.00 (http://synthesizers.com/q131.html) which are lighter than the original Moogs, and have that powder-coating...; STG sells blanks with the old-school process for $20.00 (if only it didn't have his logo on it!!! http://www.stgsoundlabs.com/products/blank_mu.htm).
My post is for DIY'ers, you know, this is the DIY forum
Of course, if you wanted to go the luxury route, re-creating the Buchla 275 is by far the best way to go, with all of that VC...
I've got a Tapco 4400A Dual Spring Reverb that's rackmounted in my modular case. It sounds great... you get two channels with separate 4-band EQ. Inside are 2 tanks. Overdriving it sounds crazy, and with the EQ's you can really get some extreme sounds. From what I understand, they are pretty cheap (~USD $100) when you can find them.
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Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:54 am Post subject:
oldmanfury wrote:
Peake wrote:
Both springs are inside the Pioneer, twanging away. I have yet to "modularize" the unit, and will likely put the electronics and springs inside the rack with the other modules.
Rather than stuffing it behind my modular, I just run the Pioneer's IO to a 1/4" patch panel beneath my setup. I couldn't bring myself to hack it apart - I love the graphical representation of "reverbe time" on the front.
Well worth the $75 I paid at a local pawn-shop. Running sharp attacks through it gets really sproingy, really quickly.
-gerald
Kudos on being ahead of the curve! You're still using the original tanks? Did yours require any adjustment? Mine is a bit heavier on the left channel.
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:55 am Post subject:
creatorlars wrote:
I've got a Tapco 4400A Dual Spring Reverb that's rackmounted in my modular case. It sounds great... you get two channels with separate 4-band EQ. Inside are 2 tanks. Overdriving it sounds crazy, and with the EQ's you can really get some extreme sounds. From what I understand, they are pretty cheap (~USD $100) when you can find them.
Sweet- I haven't seen one of those in years, and not in that condition! Congrats!
Joined: Dec 29, 2006 Posts: 1176 Location: australia
Audio files: 4
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:09 am Post subject:
If you want to fit a spring reverb behind a 1U panel try Chuck's - smallest ever and sounds great. From memory there were 2 springs in there. Sorry I don't have a link (it's my photo) but if we ask nicely he may provide some more info.
If you want to fit a spring reverb behind a 1U panel try Chuck's - smallest ever and sounds great. From memory there were 2 springs in there. Sorry I don't have a link (it's my photo) but if we ask nicely he may provide some more info.
I don't know who Chuck is, but I really like the size of this tank. The smaller the better, as long as it's not sacrificing sound too much. Is this a product he sells, or something he has designed for DIY?
Joined: Dec 29, 2006 Posts: 1176 Location: australia
Audio files: 4
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject:
Chuck is a Japanese synth diy-er, so it is not a product.
I had a listen to this reverb at the 2007 Japanese synth summit and was very impressed. No idea about the circuit but it looks like just in&out plus some level and drive pots. Maybe the main point is that size doesn't matter (too much)?
I could ask and see if he has some design info available.
The Electronic Peasant has some page on constructing spring reverbs from scratch.
http://www.electronicpeasant.com/projects/springs/springs.html
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Inexpensive vintage spring reverbs for modular synth usage
