Radio and surround

elektro80 · Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 6:50 pm Post subject: Radio and surround

I got this one some weeks ago.

The questions raised are interesting.

here goes..

elektro80 · Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject:

http://www.electronicstalk.com/news/cdi/cdi103.html

HDC Surround is a new 5.1 channel audio solution for HD Radio.
Built on top of the HDC codec already used by HD Radio, HDC Surround will enable stations to efficiently upgrade their HD Radio broadcasts to 5.1 channel surround sound while maintaining audio quality and compatibility for stereo-only receivers.
Built by Coding Technologies, the brains behind the superior performance of the HDC codec already in use by HD Radio, HDC Surround adds true 5.1 channel capability to HDC.
By building on HDC, HDC Surround provides a unique solution for backward compatible 5.1 surround sound over HD Radio.
This feature allows stations to upgrade their broadcasts to HDC Surround without negatively impacting their core stereo signal.
With the HDC Surround system, stations and receivers only need a single codec to accomplish both stereo and 5.1 channel broadcasts over HD Radio.
Existing receivers will receive the broadcast as stereo and HDC Surround enabled receivers will receive the same broadcast as true 5.1 channel surround.
"Matrix and watermark systems only provide a pseudo-surround experience which is not true to the original 5.1 channel mix", said David Frerichs, VP and US General Manager at Coding Technologies.
"HDC Surround is a true 5.1 channel encoding system that preserves the mix and provides the maximum consumer experience for surround sound over HD Radio".
"HDC Surround is designed to transmit 5.1 channel surround sound and still be compatible with today's stereo receivers", said Greg Ogonowski, VP of Product Development at Orban.
"We are working with Coding Technologies to also ensure that HDC Surround can be deployed within a modern digital radio station without a complete overhaul of the existing stereo infrastructure".

seraph · Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Radio and surround

mosc · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 9:31 am Post subject:

I would like to see this. We electro musicans should take the lead and create music with surround spaciality.

diatonis · Joined: May 01, 2005 Posts: 56 Location: los angeles, ca

hi,

there are a few 'ambient' artists using 5.1:
Myself http://www.diatonis.com/
Pete Kelley http://www.chillfactor10.com/

and others

as far as surround sound for radio - it's marketing people || need to sell some new stuff and keep people employed?

If they can do it and people will buy it ... at least it's not as bad as text messaging :^)

mosc · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 5:36 pm Post subject:

Stuart... Great to have you here.

Super on you music. I listened to many of the sample files. Very nice. Beautiful web site too.

Thanks for the link to Pete Kelly's site. Excellent stuff there too.

How do you spacialize for 5 channel sound. Do you use any special tools? Auto panners? Spacializers?

Kassen · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 5:54 pm Post subject:

mosc · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 6:07 pm Post subject:

Quite, true, there are a lot of problems. I'm thinking that electronic musicians have the skills and tools to sculpt the sounds and spacialize them. It's an aspect of our music that is fertile for development and experimentation. There are many people with home theaters and they may be a great potential audience for us as artists.

Electro-musicans can work with VJ software or collaborate with VJs to create DVDs with visuals and surround sound.

Sure most peoples' home 5.1 systems will be poorly set up and not according to the standards. Most stereo systems are the same way too. It's not a show stopper for stereo CDs is it? Unless one are trying to duplicate some acoustical sound field, non-standard 5.1 setups shouldn't be a show stopper.

I would very much like to hear Diatonis' DVD on a good surround system.

diatonis · Joined: May 01, 2005 Posts: 56 Location: los angeles, ca

Kassen · Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 10:59 pm Post subject:

Kassen · Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 11:14 pm Post subject:

diatonis,

Thanks for your in-depth comment, that pentagram idea sounds realy intereting, I´ll read up on that soon.

I myself am often working with sounds related to the dance field and other bass-heavy material and one thing that has me woried especially is the setup of the sub-woofer. I believe it was found that many people put their sub-woofer up too loud by some 10db or something equally disturbing with a cutoff a octave above what it´s supposed to be. Now, I´m all for people deciding how they want to experience the music they paid for but sometimes that conflicts with my own desire to tell a story as I intend it. Could you tell a little about how you deal with this, please?

Also with 5.1 (but not with your pentagram, I suppose), there is a link between place and function in the speakers; voices go in the front centre and the front speakers tend to be more powerfull then the rear ones, etc. Does this affect how you compose for it? If so can it be made into a benefit instead of a constraint?

ian-s · Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 1:59 am Post subject:

mosc · Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 10:10 am Post subject:

Diatonis, thanks for the response. I'm very familiar with ambisonics. A very good friend of mine, Robin Miller, is very big on surround sound. He's developed several systems including a complet 3D system which is a hybrid between ambisonics and ambiophonics. You may find it interesting to check out his website http://filmaker.com.

Robin is coming to electro-music 2005 to talk about several areas of his work. You might want to come and meet him. Laughing

I've got the newest version of Sonar with the surround panning facility, but I haven't used it yet. It looks promissing. Also, Kyma systems are very useful for creating surround playback.

diatonis · Joined: May 01, 2005 Posts: 56 Location: los angeles, ca

Hi kassen,

mosc · Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 12:58 pm Post subject:

DES · Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:00 pm Post subject:

I think surround sound for Emusic would be a good thing to happen. Not just for the other listeners - but for the performers as well. I have been toying with the idea of doing a 4.1 type system for live use for a number of years. Don't really need a center channel in the same sense as you see with Theatre systems. You could go to 8 surrounds and a sub but you might be getting into a a logistical nightmare. 4 good speakers and a decent sub could really do well, I think, in a live performance scenario.

The latest Vegas - ver 6 and DVD Architect 3 package has the Dolby encoding software...I don't think it can decode though - I have to check into that. So you take your completed disk and play it on your home theatre 5.1 system....

I believe Tomita did a 5-channel "pyramid" recording on his Bermuda Triangle album...never did get to hear it that way though. Has anyone had a chance to hear that? Might be a way to do the 5.1 thing - just hang the center speaker on the ceiling..... Very Happy

Dave

diatonis · Joined: May 01, 2005 Posts: 56 Location: los angeles, ca

elektro80 · Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:51 pm Post subject:

I have been considering this surround business. Personally, the way I currently use the stereo soundstage and how I take that into consideration when I actually write the damned stuff, I would rather write for the surround soundstage rather than make a surround mix of existing material. I do however have some pieces that could easily be mixed for a surround format with success, but I don´t not see the point.. not right now that is. Chris Orczy has been telling me about this composer he knows, John Cousins, who has actually written and recorded music for surround. In his case I reckon a stereo soundstage won´t cut it.

mosc · Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:49 pm Post subject:

Milton Babbit wrote music in the 50s for surround.